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	<title>Comments on: New design for friendlybit coming up</title>
	<atom:link href="http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/</link>
	<description>You have found Friendly Bit, a web development blog. I focus on client side technologies like CSS, HTML and Javascript. You find my articles below and categories to the right.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan Schulz</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29960</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29960</guid>
		<description>Emil, when I have no choice but to use the declarations you mentioned, I usually just in-line them with the rest of the style rule since 99.995% of the time they don't conflict with other browsers or browser versions (exceptions being support for PNG alpha transparency, :hover on non-anchor elements, and cases where mixing height and min-height in the same style rule can cause a conflict of interest).

The rest of the time I just code around it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil, when I have no choice but to use the declarations you mentioned, I usually just in-line them with the rest of the style rule since 99.995% of the time they don&#8217;t conflict with other browsers or browser versions (exceptions being support for PNG alpha transparency, :hover on non-anchor elements, and cases where mixing height and min-height in the same style rule can cause a conflict of interest).</p>
<p>The rest of the time I just code around it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark McDonnell</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29956</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark McDonnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29956</guid>
		<description>sweet! sounds good to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sweet! sounds good to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29953</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29953</guid>
		<description>@Dan Schulz: Where to put those height: 1%, display: inline, narrowed widths, position: relative, overflow: hidden, or whatever IE6 decides is the bug of the day, is what takes the time. It's just not worth my time. I'm well aware how much work it is, and in this instance I don't feel it's worth it. Thanks for the links.

@Dan Pettersson: Good idea, added an ugly conditional comment to take care of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Schulz: Where to put those height: 1%, display: inline, narrowed widths, position: relative, overflow: hidden, or whatever IE6 decides is the bug of the day, is what takes the time. It&#8217;s just not worth my time. I&#8217;m well aware how much work it is, and in this instance I don&#8217;t feel it&#8217;s worth it. Thanks for the links.</p>
<p>@Dan Pettersson: Good idea, added an ugly conditional comment to take care of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Pettersson</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29947</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Pettersson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29947</guid>
		<description>Great with a new design. I agree with you that making a design work in IE6 isn't necessary, as long as the content is available anyway.
It might be a good idea telling IE &#60;=6 users that they should upgrade, so you get the message out - there isn't much point in IE6 users not liking the design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great with a new design. I agree with you that making a design work in IE6 isn&#8217;t necessary, as long as the content is available anyway.<br />
It might be a good idea telling IE &lt;=6 users that they should upgrade, so you get the message out - there isn&#8217;t much point in IE6 users not liking the design.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Schulz</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29942</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29942</guid>
		<description>Hi Emil,

Just a couple quick things before I head off to bed (been busy working on a custom WordPress theme all night)

1.) Cool.  I'll check it out in the morning (eh, afternoon, actually).

2.) The only "fixes" I usually use are a .htc file for :hover, :focus and :active in IE 5/6, and adding the occasional height: 1% or overflow: hidden; property/declaration pair to a style rule (no hacking needed).  I hate transparent PNGs with a passion, but if I had to use them, &lt;a href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/09/18/png8-the-clear-winner/" rel="nofollow"&gt;there is a way to get IE 6 "in line" without having to use a hack&lt;/a&gt; (link: sitepoint.com).

3.) I use Opera myself, and I've tried a LOT of them.

4.) (slightly off-topic) I have a custom WordPress theme framework under construction that I'm hoping will save me a lot of time developing WordPress themes; the tab switcher is just one of the things that'll be going into it.  Of course anything that makes it easier on the designer/developer and the user is a win-win scenario in my book.

5.) I use the My Yahoo! service, so I only see the excerpts anyway.  So I have to head here anyway if I want to continue reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Emil,</p>
<p>Just a couple quick things before I head off to bed (been busy working on a custom WordPress theme all night)</p>
<p>1.) Cool.  I&#8217;ll check it out in the morning (eh, afternoon, actually).</p>
<p>2.) The only &#8220;fixes&#8221; I usually use are a .htc file for :hover, :focus and :active in IE 5/6, and adding the occasional height: 1% or overflow: hidden; property/declaration pair to a style rule (no hacking needed).  I hate transparent PNGs with a passion, but if I had to use them, <a href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/09/18/png8-the-clear-winner/" rel="nofollow">there is a way to get IE 6 &#8220;in line&#8221; without having to use a hack</a> (link: sitepoint.com).</p>
<p>3.) I use Opera myself, and I&#8217;ve tried a LOT of them.</p>
<p>4.) (slightly off-topic) I have a custom WordPress theme framework under construction that I&#8217;m hoping will save me a lot of time developing WordPress themes; the tab switcher is just one of the things that&#8217;ll be going into it.  Of course anything that makes it easier on the designer/developer and the user is a win-win scenario in my book.</p>
<p>5.) I use the My Yahoo! service, so I only see the excerpts anyway.  So I have to head here anyway if I want to continue reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29939</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29939</guid>
		<description>@Martin S: Good point, I'll check so it's accessible in IE6, even though I won't make it look good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Martin S: Good point, I&#8217;ll check so it&#8217;s accessible in IE6, even though I won&#8217;t make it look good.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29938</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29938</guid>
		<description>@Dan Schulz: Thanks for your comments, really helpful. 

1) About color: I've slightly tweaked (i was rather close already) the colors to adhere to the standards when it comes to &lt;a href="http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;contrast and brightness&lt;/a&gt;. I believe it's easy to read.

2) I'm coding to the standards. But in this instance I won't do extra coding to fix IE6, not with PNGs or otherwise. In my experience, and I've done quite a few difficult layouts, fixing IE6 bugs takes about half the total time. Not worth it.

3) I'm saying that any decent web developer show use a modern browser as their default browser. I'm not saying that everyone should stop supporting IE6, big difference.

4) I'll think about the tab switcher, interesting idea.

5) I'm sorry you don't like it, but then again, to read the site via RSS you don't have to see it. It's really not an easy thing to like, since it's rather colorish and different. Yes, it's amateurish, I'm a design amateur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Schulz: Thanks for your comments, really helpful. </p>
<p>1) About color: I&#8217;ve slightly tweaked (i was rather close already) the colors to adhere to the standards when it comes to <a href="http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html" rel="nofollow">contrast and brightness</a>. I believe it&#8217;s easy to read.</p>
<p>2) I&#8217;m coding to the standards. But in this instance I won&#8217;t do extra coding to fix IE6, not with PNGs or otherwise. In my experience, and I&#8217;ve done quite a few difficult layouts, fixing IE6 bugs takes about half the total time. Not worth it.</p>
<p>3) I&#8217;m saying that any decent web developer show use a modern browser as their default browser. I&#8217;m not saying that everyone should stop supporting IE6, big difference.</p>
<p>4) I&#8217;ll think about the tab switcher, interesting idea.</p>
<p>5) I&#8217;m sorry you don&#8217;t like it, but then again, to read the site via RSS you don&#8217;t have to see it. It&#8217;s really not an easy thing to like, since it&#8217;s rather colorish and different. Yes, it&#8217;s amateurish, I&#8217;m a design amateur.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29937</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29937</guid>
		<description>@Kristoffer Nolgren: Sure, I'd love to have a look at them. Mind sending them to em@kth.se ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kristoffer Nolgren: Sure, I&#8217;d love to have a look at them. Mind sending them to <a href="mailto:em@kth.se">em@kth.se</a> ?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin S,</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29936</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin S,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29936</guid>
		<description>Really interesting and looking quite good, Emil.

However, I can't really stick with the idea of not making a pre ie7 compatible layout. We're speaking so much of accessibility and what must be done, yet we still decide to make our websites inaccessible for pre ie7 users. Not very good, if you ask me..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting and looking quite good, Emil.</p>
<p>However, I can&#8217;t really stick with the idea of not making a pre ie7 compatible layout. We&#8217;re speaking so much of accessibility and what must be done, yet we still decide to make our websites inaccessible for pre ie7 users. Not very good, if you ask me..</p>
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		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29935</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29935</guid>
		<description>It's awesome !
Even the color, it's nice to see something different from time to time :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s awesome !<br />
Even the color, it&#8217;s nice to see something different from time to time :)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Schulz</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29934</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29934</guid>
		<description>Emil, please don't take this the wrong way, but how is anyone supposed to be able to read anything with the lack of proper contrast between the text and the background?  And why are you ditching IE 6 and hacking for IE 7 in the first place?  From what I've seen there's no need to hack for one and ignore the other, unless you're really worried about PNG support or :hover on elements other than anchors - in which I'd look into using .hta or .htc files instead (served via a conditioanl comment specifically written for IE 5/6 if necessary).

I also have to object to this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;It seems to be hip inside the Googleplex to kick on people making money from other things than AdSense.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That's actually not the case.  Yes, Google said they would go after those who sold links, but it's not because they're trying to dominate the advertising market with AdSense.  It's because people were trying to abuse the PageRank system (as foolhardy as that is), nothing more.  If you're going to keep the ads (and this goes for the rest of you as well), just add rel="nofollow" to the links if the advertiser will let you.  Problem solved.

This also struck quite a nerve with me as well:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I won’t make it work in IE6 (on purpose). This is for my own satisfaction, and seriously, any decent web developer should already have something better. Stats say 60% Firefox, 16% IE7, and 14% IE6. Please upgrade people. I will test it in the latest version of Opera (4.2%) and Safari (4.5%). Why? Because I want more users with good browsers, and fewer with bad. And since this is a personal blog, I can choose. Yay!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Now, you said this is your personal site, and as such I will respect that as well as your decision, but the "any decent Web developer" part really set me off.  Which is never a good idea.  Any decent Web developer will code to the standards and against the four major rendering engines that are available, not to a particular browser or browser version (yes, this includes the Web developer's favorite toy, Firefox).  For those who need a reminder (or simply don't know), the four major rendering engines are Trident (IE), Gecko (Camino, Firefox, Flock, Galeon, K-Meleon, Netscape, etc...), Presto (Opera), and WebKit/KHTML (Safari, OmniWeb - IIRC - and Konqueror respectively).

Now, as for the design itself (deep breath, Dan), it appears too amateurish for me.  The purple just screams "mysticism and occult" to me for some reason (probably the shades you're using, as well as that pink in there as well), the text as I said before is hard to read due to the lack of proper contrast between the copy and the background, and also feels a bit hypnotizing as well.

I've also noticed that your site reminds me a bit of Veerle Pieters and Molly Holschzlag's Web sites as well, especially with the aspects of those sites being incorporated in your design (probably unintentionally).  I actually like that, since it helps me (as someone who's a regular reader of molly.com for instance) to associate your site with the pillars of the community, and helps recognize right away (before reading one line of text) what the site is going to be about.  Kind of like how ProBlogger.net's design is quickly becoming the "standard bearer" of professional blog designs (at least in my opinion anyway).

I do like the separation of comments from trackbacks, but would it be possible to use JavaScript to create a tab switcher that can display and "hide" the two depending on which is selected so that people who want to see who's linking don't have to scroll down to do so (especially for when there are a lot of comments on a particular blog entry, or a long comment, such as this one)?

(Another thing I would include is a "subscribe to comments" feature - I don't read a lot of blogs, but of those I do, I prefer to follow the comments via email.)

Anyway, I have other opinions (that go along with "scrap this and start over"), but I'll leave them for later if you like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil, please don&#8217;t take this the wrong way, but how is anyone supposed to be able to read anything with the lack of proper contrast between the text and the background?  And why are you ditching IE 6 and hacking for IE 7 in the first place?  From what I&#8217;ve seen there&#8217;s no need to hack for one and ignore the other, unless you&#8217;re really worried about PNG support or :hover on elements other than anchors - in which I&#8217;d look into using .hta or .htc files instead (served via a conditioanl comment specifically written for IE 5/6 if necessary).</p>
<p>I also have to object to this:</p>
<blockquote><p>It seems to be hip inside the Googleplex to kick on people making money from other things than AdSense.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s actually not the case.  Yes, Google said they would go after those who sold links, but it&#8217;s not because they&#8217;re trying to dominate the advertising market with AdSense.  It&#8217;s because people were trying to abuse the PageRank system (as foolhardy as that is), nothing more.  If you&#8217;re going to keep the ads (and this goes for the rest of you as well), just add rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221; to the links if the advertiser will let you.  Problem solved.</p>
<p>This also struck quite a nerve with me as well:</p>
<blockquote><p>I won’t make it work in IE6 (on purpose). This is for my own satisfaction, and seriously, any decent web developer should already have something better. Stats say 60% Firefox, 16% IE7, and 14% IE6. Please upgrade people. I will test it in the latest version of Opera (4.2%) and Safari (4.5%). Why? Because I want more users with good browsers, and fewer with bad. And since this is a personal blog, I can choose. Yay!</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, you said this is your personal site, and as such I will respect that as well as your decision, but the &#8220;any decent Web developer&#8221; part really set me off.  Which is never a good idea.  Any decent Web developer will code to the standards and against the four major rendering engines that are available, not to a particular browser or browser version (yes, this includes the Web developer&#8217;s favorite toy, Firefox).  For those who need a reminder (or simply don&#8217;t know), the four major rendering engines are Trident (IE), Gecko (Camino, Firefox, Flock, Galeon, K-Meleon, Netscape, etc&#8230;), Presto (Opera), and WebKit/KHTML (Safari, OmniWeb - IIRC - and Konqueror respectively).</p>
<p>Now, as for the design itself (deep breath, Dan), it appears too amateurish for me.  The purple just screams &#8220;mysticism and occult&#8221; to me for some reason (probably the shades you&#8217;re using, as well as that pink in there as well), the text as I said before is hard to read due to the lack of proper contrast between the copy and the background, and also feels a bit hypnotizing as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also noticed that your site reminds me a bit of Veerle Pieters and Molly Holschzlag&#8217;s Web sites as well, especially with the aspects of those sites being incorporated in your design (probably unintentionally).  I actually like that, since it helps me (as someone who&#8217;s a regular reader of molly.com for instance) to associate your site with the pillars of the community, and helps recognize right away (before reading one line of text) what the site is going to be about.  Kind of like how ProBlogger.net&#8217;s design is quickly becoming the &#8220;standard bearer&#8221; of professional blog designs (at least in my opinion anyway).</p>
<p>I do like the separation of comments from trackbacks, but would it be possible to use JavaScript to create a tab switcher that can display and &#8220;hide&#8221; the two depending on which is selected so that people who want to see who&#8217;s linking don&#8217;t have to scroll down to do so (especially for when there are a lot of comments on a particular blog entry, or a long comment, such as this one)?</p>
<p>(Another thing I would include is a &#8220;subscribe to comments&#8221; feature - I don&#8217;t read a lot of blogs, but of those I do, I prefer to follow the comments via email.)</p>
<p>Anyway, I have other opinions (that go along with &#8220;scrap this and start over&#8221;), but I&#8217;ll leave them for later if you like.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristoffer Nolgren</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29933</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristoffer Nolgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29933</guid>
		<description>Idéerna för den nya sidan tycker jag är jävligt skyssta, mes vad är grejjen med färgen? Det ser ut som att en påfågel har sprängts upp över hela ytan. Dessutom vet alla att vitt och blått är färgen alla sanna web 2.0-designers använder ;)


Nu till det jag skulle säga. De små blomklummelurerna som du har slängt upp på sidan är rätt trevliga, men skulle nog kunna bli ännu trevligare. Jag har några skyssta Illustrator penslar som har blomformer. De var gratis och open soucre och sånt, men jag minns inte var jag hittade dem. Säg till ifall du vill att jag ska maila dem till dig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Idéerna för den nya sidan tycker jag är jävligt skyssta, mes vad är grejjen med färgen? Det ser ut som att en påfågel har sprängts upp över hela ytan. Dessutom vet alla att vitt och blått är färgen alla sanna web 2.0-designers använder ;)</p>
<p>Nu till det jag skulle säga. De små blomklummelurerna som du har slängt upp på sidan är rätt trevliga, men skulle nog kunna bli ännu trevligare. Jag har några skyssta Illustrator penslar som har blomformer. De var gratis och open soucre och sånt, men jag minns inte var jag hittade dem. Säg till ifall du vill att jag ska maila dem till dig.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29932</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29932</guid>
		<description>@Trn: Design updated with e-mail and categories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Trn: Design updated with e-mail and categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29931</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29931</guid>
		<description>@Trn: Great comments. I'd forgotten about e-mail, and I'll think about categories, and if they are needed. Spelling corrected.

@Anders Ytterström: Thanks!

@Chris: The image is as far I've come design-wise. I have a static HTML file with all the content, so what I need to do is: 1) write the CSS, and 2) convert the static files to a wordpress theme. I'm hoping for about two weeks, but we'll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Trn: Great comments. I&#8217;d forgotten about e-mail, and I&#8217;ll think about categories, and if they are needed. Spelling corrected.</p>
<p>@Anders Ytterström: Thanks!</p>
<p>@Chris: The image is as far I&#8217;ve come design-wise. I have a static HTML file with all the content, so what I need to do is: 1) write the CSS, and 2) convert the static files to a wordpress theme. I&#8217;m hoping for about two weeks, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit/#comment-29930</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/other/new-design-for-friendlybit-coming-up/#comment-29930</guid>
		<description>The new design looks great.  When's it going live?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new design looks great.  When&#8217;s it going live?</p>
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