<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ten commandments of update services</title>
	<atom:link href="http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/</link>
	<description>Strategic web development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 22:48:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rasmus Kaj</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31072</link>
		<dc:creator>Rasmus Kaj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31072</guid>
		<description>Updating everyting, when the updater is part of the OS and actually can update &lt;em&gt;everything&lt;/em&gt; is way better than updating a single program.

The ubuntu updater checks once a day for updates of anything, rather than checking for updates of one specific program each time you start a program (I &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; wouldn&#039;t want anything to take half a second extra each time I run grep).  And id checks silently in the background, showing a non-intrusive icon if it finds anything to update.

For me, it finds something to update maybe one or two times a week.  I click &quot;update it&quot; when I&#039;m not to busy with anything else.  Maybe once a month it tells me I must restart an app, but then I can keep using the app until it is convenient for me to restart (or close) it.  Same with reboots, only at an even lower frequency.

Actually, I find it hard to even imagine a better way to handle updates, apart from the enigmatic &quot;don&#039;t put the bugs there to start with, so you won&#039;t have to fix them&quot; ... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Updating everyting, when the updater is part of the OS and actually can update <em>everything</em> is way better than updating a single program.</p>
<p>The ubuntu updater checks once a day for updates of anything, rather than checking for updates of one specific program each time you start a program (I <em>really</em> wouldn&#8217;t want anything to take half a second extra each time I run grep).  And id checks silently in the background, showing a non-intrusive icon if it finds anything to update.</p>
<p>For me, it finds something to update maybe one or two times a week.  I click &#8220;update it&#8221; when I&#8217;m not to busy with anything else.  Maybe once a month it tells me I must restart an app, but then I can keep using the app until it is convenient for me to restart (or close) it.  Same with reboots, only at an even lower frequency.</p>
<p>Actually, I find it hard to even imagine a better way to handle updates, apart from the enigmatic &#8220;don&#8217;t put the bugs there to start with, so you won&#8217;t have to fix them&#8221; &#8230; :-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Los Diez Mandamientos de los servicios de actualización &#124; Andrebills</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31066</link>
		<dc:creator>Los Diez Mandamientos de los servicios de actualización &#124; Andrebills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31066</guid>
		<description>[...] situaciones como la anterior es la que comentan en el recomendado post de Friendly Bit » Ten commandments of update services y propone lo que deberían ser los 10 mandamientos en servicios de actualización de [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] situaciones como la anterior es la que comentan en el recomendado post de Friendly Bit » Ten commandments of update services y propone lo que deberían ser los 10 mandamientos en servicios de actualización de [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31064</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31064</guid>
		<description>@Emil Hesslow: Sorry for not replying until now, your comment stuck in the spam box, sorry! Yes, I forgot about Apple completely, they are annoying to the point that I&#039;m starting to think I can live without quicktime altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Emil Hesslow: Sorry for not replying until now, your comment stuck in the spam box, sorry! Yes, I forgot about Apple completely, they are annoying to the point that I&#8217;m starting to think I can live without quicktime altogether.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31063</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 05:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31063</guid>
		<description>@Adam Z: Hehe, good point. They could really make updating programs transparent if they wanted. But hey, then your boss won&#039;t see what you&#039;re doing! Better make it in-your-face.

The problem with doing things when you&#039;re not at the computer is that you get updates you don&#039;t want. You get trapped in the &quot;update everything&quot; mentality that linux is in too. If you&#039;re not using a program, there&#039;s no need to update it. That&#039;s why I think searching for updates once a week on startup wouldn&#039;t be such a bad idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Adam Z: Hehe, good point. They could really make updating programs transparent if they wanted. But hey, then your boss won&#8217;t see what you&#8217;re doing! Better make it in-your-face.</p>
<p>The problem with doing things when you&#8217;re not at the computer is that you get updates you don&#8217;t want. You get trapped in the &#8220;update everything&#8221; mentality that linux is in too. If you&#8217;re not using a program, there&#8217;s no need to update it. That&#8217;s why I think searching for updates once a week on startup wouldn&#8217;t be such a bad idea.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diez mandamientos de los servicios de actualización</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31061</link>
		<dc:creator>Diez mandamientos de los servicios de actualización</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31061</guid>
		<description>[...] situaciones como la anterior es la que comentan en el recomendado post de Friendly Bit » Ten commandments of update services y propone lo que deberían ser los 10 mandamientos en servicios de actualización de [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] situaciones como la anterior es la que comentan en el recomendado post de Friendly Bit » Ten commandments of update services y propone lo que deberían ser los 10 mandamientos en servicios de actualización de [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Z</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31060</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31060</guid>
		<description>The worst part is that they don&#039;t have to!  It&#039;s just they were designed as an afterthought by the programmers and not by the people who actually use it.  I guess I&#039;d have to ask, how many software companies do focus groups on their updating software, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst part is that they don&#8217;t have to!  It&#8217;s just they were designed as an afterthought by the programmers and not by the people who actually use it.  I guess I&#8217;d have to ask, how many software companies do focus groups on their updating software, eh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31059</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31059</guid>
		<description>Bitches, eh? :-)
Nice rant, the updating procedures bug me to no end as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bitches, eh? :-)<br />
Nice rant, the updating procedures bug me to no end as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Z</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31058</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31058</guid>
		<description>Edit: slow = small obviously</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit: slow = small obviously</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Z</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31057</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31057</guid>
		<description>It annoys me that some programs install updaters that now have to load at boot time, but as long as they&#039;re slow I can live with it.  I understand there&#039;s no standard API they can hook into.  But don&#039;t you dare slow down my boot time!

Next, how bout you check for updates when the screensaver is running! I leave my work and home computer running 24 hours a day most of the time (not weekends).  It runs BOINC and other jobs during that time.  For the hours I&#039;m using it, I want its undivided attention.  When I&#039;m not using it, by all means go ahead and download and install (if I preauthorize it) the updates.

Don&#039;t check when I&#039;m starting my computer.  Don&#039;t check when I&#039;m starting the app.  Don&#039;t check when I&#039;m shutting things down.  Those are 3 times when I am guaranteed to be at my computer and am waiting for it to do something for me.  Don&#039;t interrupt it!

Last point for me, if you&#039;re going to check for updates, ask me if I want to be notified every time.  I don&#039;t need an application to start up to say, &quot;Checking for Updates&quot;, and then &quot;No updates found&quot;.  If you didn&#039;t do anything, I don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It annoys me that some programs install updaters that now have to load at boot time, but as long as they&#8217;re slow I can live with it.  I understand there&#8217;s no standard API they can hook into.  But don&#8217;t you dare slow down my boot time!</p>
<p>Next, how bout you check for updates when the screensaver is running! I leave my work and home computer running 24 hours a day most of the time (not weekends).  It runs BOINC and other jobs during that time.  For the hours I&#8217;m using it, I want its undivided attention.  When I&#8217;m not using it, by all means go ahead and download and install (if I preauthorize it) the updates.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t check when I&#8217;m starting my computer.  Don&#8217;t check when I&#8217;m starting the app.  Don&#8217;t check when I&#8217;m shutting things down.  Those are 3 times when I am guaranteed to be at my computer and am waiting for it to do something for me.  Don&#8217;t interrupt it!</p>
<p>Last point for me, if you&#8217;re going to check for updates, ask me if I want to be notified every time.  I don&#8217;t need an application to start up to say, &#8220;Checking for Updates&#8221;, and then &#8220;No updates found&#8221;.  If you didn&#8217;t do anything, I don&#8217;t care.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31055</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31055</guid>
		<description>@Emil:
huh ... let&#039;s try:
1. n/a
2. n/a (update check is independent from program)
3. yup.
4. n/a (update check checks everything)
5. yup.
6. nope.
7. yup.
8. yup.
9. yup. Only Kernel updates require restarts.
10. n/a

By the way. One of the biggest annoyances at all are programs that steal focus. I really hate it (it&#039;s great typing credentials in chat windows because chat client just finished starting. haha)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Emil:<br />
huh &#8230; let&#8217;s try:<br />
1. n/a<br />
2. n/a (update check is independent from program)<br />
3. yup.<br />
4. n/a (update check checks everything)<br />
5. yup.<br />
6. nope.<br />
7. yup.<br />
8. yup.<br />
9. yup. Only Kernel updates require restarts.<br />
10. n/a</p>
<p>By the way. One of the biggest annoyances at all are programs that steal focus. I really hate it (it&#8217;s great typing credentials in chat windows because chat client just finished starting. haha)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31054</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31054</guid>
		<description>@exec: The problem with your list above is that many of the options contain a &quot;manually&quot;, &quot;you choose&quot;, &quot;your settings&quot;. I know this is the foundation of linux, letting people choose, but I don&#039;t think you should have to choose how you update your program. I know I don&#039;t want to. I want to use the damn program.

Also, from my experience of Ubuntu, it does not update by program, rather a large batch of updates for all your programs, with an icon in the taskbar which (naturally) says there&#039;s updates all the time (since there are, I just don&#039;t use telnet-SSL-config-kerbal-widget-gadget ever). 

The Linux way is far from perfect (not saying that&#039;s what you where implying).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@exec: The problem with your list above is that many of the options contain a &#8220;manually&#8221;, &#8220;you choose&#8221;, &#8220;your settings&#8221;. I know this is the foundation of linux, letting people choose, but I don&#8217;t think you should have to choose how you update your program. I know I don&#8217;t want to. I want to use the damn program.</p>
<p>Also, from my experience of Ubuntu, it does not update by program, rather a large batch of updates for all your programs, with an icon in the taskbar which (naturally) says there&#8217;s updates all the time (since there are, I just don&#8217;t use telnet-SSL-config-kerbal-widget-gadget ever). </p>
<p>The Linux way is far from perfect (not saying that&#8217;s what you where implying).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Exec</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31053</link>
		<dc:creator>Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31053</guid>
		<description>Woah, I write too slowly...

About apt-get/aptitude/Synaptic (GUI &quot;version&quot;)
1. Not web based.
2. N/A checks whenever you set it to check, or manually if you prefer that.
3, 4. N/A
5. Depends on the package but most often there&#039;s a lot of info and there usually are a list of buglinks.
6. You can set it to install security updates, all updates or no updates automatically.
7. Downloads and/or installs in the background, depending on your settings. (It does it in the background, but you can chose if you want to manually install what id downloads)
8. I&#039;ve only ever seen commercial apps do this without having a checkbox that is unchecked by default.
9. From my experience only kernel updates and some driver updates (graphics card) require a restart. It also tells you when a specific program need to be restarted, after the installation is made.
10. Well, it restarts the applications, so yeah...
11. Afaik, it does that.

This is based on experience and not knowledge so there might be a few misconceptions of mine in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woah, I write too slowly&#8230;</p>
<p>About apt-get/aptitude/Synaptic (GUI &#8220;version&#8221;)<br />
1. Not web based.<br />
2. N/A checks whenever you set it to check, or manually if you prefer that.<br />
3, 4. N/A<br />
5. Depends on the package but most often there&#8217;s a lot of info and there usually are a list of buglinks.<br />
6. You can set it to install security updates, all updates or no updates automatically.<br />
7. Downloads and/or installs in the background, depending on your settings. (It does it in the background, but you can chose if you want to manually install what id downloads)<br />
8. I&#8217;ve only ever seen commercial apps do this without having a checkbox that is unchecked by default.<br />
9. From my experience only kernel updates and some driver updates (graphics card) require a restart. It also tells you when a specific program need to be restarted, after the installation is made.<br />
10. Well, it restarts the applications, so yeah&#8230;<br />
11. Afaik, it does that.</p>
<p>This is based on experience and not knowledge so there might be a few misconceptions of mine in there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Exec</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31052</link>
		<dc:creator>Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31052</guid>
		<description>Slow it down? It takes some part of a second for Firefox to check for updates for both itself and every extension installed... They should be able to trump that, shouldn&#039;t they? They could also limit it to once a day if you&#039;re afraid of having issues with startup time.

Windows and boxes that regularly pop-up and get in the way just trains the user to close any similar things without giving it a second thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slow it down? It takes some part of a second for Firefox to check for updates for both itself and every extension installed&#8230; They should be able to trump that, shouldn&#8217;t they? They could also limit it to once a day if you&#8217;re afraid of having issues with startup time.</p>
<p>Windows and boxes that regularly pop-up and get in the way just trains the user to close any similar things without giving it a second thought.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31051</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31051</guid>
		<description>@Chris: Well, does apt get any of the ten points right?

@James Socol: About startup time, see my previous answer. Point number 11, great addition, added to the list!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris: Well, does apt get any of the ten points right?</p>
<p>@James Socol: About startup time, see my previous answer. Point number 11, great addition, added to the list!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Emil Stenström</title>
		<link>http://friendlybit.com/other/ten-commandments-of-update-services/#comment-31050</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Stenström</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlybit.com/?p=239#comment-31050</guid>
		<description>@Rasmus Kaj: I see what you mean, but apt-get isn&#039;t much better than the ones I describe. An update service shouldn&#039;t update stuff I don&#039;t care about, most linux based update systems does that. So here I am, wanting to make stuff better :)

@Rotem: #2: If you limit that to a single HTTP request to a certain URL, that shouldn&#039;t take more than a second. If you only make that request once a week, few will even notice.

#7: If there is a good reason, then I agree, please restart my browser. I fear that most often there isn&#039;t a good reason. Lets say someone finds that closing Firefox prevents stopping some extension working properly. Is that I reason to require a restart? I think not, but update services seems to always assume that as soon as some tiny problem gets solved by restarting, lets do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rasmus Kaj: I see what you mean, but apt-get isn&#8217;t much better than the ones I describe. An update service shouldn&#8217;t update stuff I don&#8217;t care about, most linux based update systems does that. So here I am, wanting to make stuff better :)</p>
<p>@Rotem: #2: If you limit that to a single HTTP request to a certain URL, that shouldn&#8217;t take more than a second. If you only make that request once a week, few will even notice.</p>
<p>#7: If there is a good reason, then I agree, please restart my browser. I fear that most often there isn&#8217;t a good reason. Lets say someone finds that closing Firefox prevents stopping some extension working properly. Is that I reason to require a restart? I think not, but update services seems to always assume that as soon as some tiny problem gets solved by restarting, lets do it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using disk: enhanced (User agent is rejected)
Database Caching 1/9 queries in 0.003 seconds using disk: basic
Object Caching 386/389 objects using disk: basic

Served from: friendlybit.com @ 2012-05-22 10:11:32 -->
